Fixing normals

GTA:V Modding with ZModeler3 discussion.

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Pijany Walcarz
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:48 am

Fixing normals

Post by Pijany Walcarz »

Hello,
The mod I'm using in GTA V have really annoying reflections when looking on vehicle from sharp edges.
To be precise the edges of the doors are not correctly smooth / normals calculated.
Is there any fix to get rid of these? What tool shouuld be used to get them good loking?
Badnormals.jpg
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Deadspin
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Re: Fixing normals

Post by Deadspin »

Could just be a bad crunch job on the polys making it so that no matter how you adjust the normals on those vertices, you're going to get bulging and bumps.

Have you tried the Smoothing normals tool?
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Pijany Walcarz
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Re: Fixing normals

Post by Pijany Walcarz »

I've tried the smoothing tool but it does not seem to do anything.

But I've cut the part of the doors I wanted to fix and after using normals calculation I ended up with this:
betternormals.jpg
It looks better, but not perfect. Places near door handles and key locker need more work.

Is there any way to completely remove smoothing normals and making them again?
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Oleg
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Re: Fixing normals

Post by Oleg »

1. select vertices in problematic area.
2. modify\Break for selected vertices
3. select all vertices in problematic area again
4. Normals\Calculate
5. modify\submesh\Weld tool. Options: "multiple targes". Click on any of selected vertices. Flyout options window should have:

distance = 0
uv tolerance = 0.1
normals angle = 40
(while you change normals angle value you will see changes instantly, so you can mess around with better value without undoing-redoing), before you press OK.


P.S. do not use "Break" tool for entire part. It duplicates vertices and you can hit 64K vertices limit per object on high-detail geometry objects. In case of the door object, it is likely you will not hit this limit, so you can use the method above for entire object to refine it's surface/normals smoothness.

You can use Surface\Normals\Smooth tool after the method above to smooth sharp edges. Genearlly, Smooth tool was designed for this: to smooth normals on adjacent polygons that don't share vertices on common edges (such an edge is drawn with strong wireframe line in ZModeler. edges with "shared/smooth" vertices are drawn as dimmed wireframe lines).
Pijany Walcarz
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Re: Fixing normals

Post by Pijany Walcarz »

Thanks Oleg for the tip :)

I've followed your steps, but I think I have achieved maximum:
Better normals2.jpg
I don't know if in Zmodeller there is a possibility to edit projection of the specific normals. What is purpouse of the manipulator tool?

Wanted to check if the vertices are badly placed between each other so I used tool Project normals out from pivot helper and the model surface is pretty flat but the model embossing is completely wrong :).
normalsprojectioncheck.jpg
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Oleg
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Re: Fixing normals

Post by Oleg »

according to wireframe/outline (solid and dimmed) your top screenshot looks like the proper result. yet it still lucks of smooth environment reflection, but this could be a result of inaccurate topology/surface of the model itself. Have you applied Normals\Calculate after all the steps performed? surface\normals\smooth can refine sharp shading a bit too.

Projection tool is used for environment reflection normals, it is not compatible with tangents for bump-mapping. Also, you can "add some of projection" to your model by selecting an object, then using main menu Surface->Normals->Tuner tool.

P.S. Projection can improve reflections on windows where bump is not used and smooth and accurate reflection is highly desirable.
Pijany Walcarz
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:48 am

Re: Fixing normals

Post by Pijany Walcarz »

Hi Oleg. Yes, I've used normals calculation after performing the steps above. I've checked the defective vertices and they need to be move manually to match inline with the others to get good topology. Anyway it's way better than it was.

Thank you.
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