2 questions that bother me about a youtube tuto on how to create a ped

[Sun2k]

Hello to all ,

I followed this tutorial to create a ped (I don't know if I have the right to put the link)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q1Ab04kt-w&t=12s

And I have 2 questions that bother me:

1/ Why after copying the weight, it paints the weight with the tool "Paint weight of current bone on vertices"? Is it necessary because in another youtuber did not do it?

2/ Why doesn't it separate the skeleton and the mesh by renaming the skeleton (.yft file) to .global?

Sincerely

[Oleg]

1. Automatic weight copy tool uses nearest vertices to read rigging data from, however this is not always correct. For example, the "Spine3" bone got affection on biceps vertices as they were close to the torso/suit vertices of bankman model than to hands. Thus, spint3 bone got affection on vertices that it should not affect actually. The Rigging\Influence\Paint tool being applied with Ctrl key held down will reduce affection of current bone on vertices instead of adding affection. You can see the colorized affection goes to deep blue (low level) and disappears while he paints. It is just neither shown nor explained in a video that Ctrl key is held down. So he does with other bones to reduce their affection on areas whether associated bone(s) should not affect the mesh.

2. It is essential to put skeleton into a .global branch. Doing so, the exporter will know the skeleton will be saved in a separate .yft file and makes different structure of .ydd file you export. If you don't move skeleton out of hierarchy to it's own .global branch, the exporter will put skeleton into a .ydd file (most likely to head_001_u branch or any other "head" branch), but this is not what game expects.

In general, after importing the .yft file, it should be renamed to .global before you proceed with importing the .ydd file, so you should initially have a scene setup with skeleton outside of ydd hierarchy in it's own .global branch. The name ".global" is also essential for the importer/exporter to trigger proper routines.

[Sun2k]

Thank you very much for these explanations.

There is one thing I don't understand, how to know which bone is affected to a precise part of the body? Because when I uncheck the "Spine3" bone it's the upper part (bust, arms and head) that is masked then why use the Rigging\Influence\Paint tool to reduce the biceps affection because it is part of the arm?

[Oleg]

On objects level, you can right-click on any bone and set Skeleton->Current bone. ZModeler will highlight in color the influence of the current bone ranging from deep blue (low) to bright red (high).

[Sun2k]

Thank you but why do you say that

the "Spine3" bone was affected on the tops of the biceps because they were closer to the tops of the torso because in reality it should not be affected

but "Spine3" also corresponds to the biceps (see the photo circled in red)

I'm really sorry because it's complicated to understand

[Oleg]

You will understand it better when you start modding and put an improperly rigged model into the game. you will clearly see what "incorrect bone affection" look alike in game.

As the example in above discussion, the spine3 bone should affect chest vertices and should have zero affection on arms. because if it has, say, 10% affection on bicep vertices, the ped will raise heads up and bicep vertices will move only 90% up (and 10% spine affection will force them to stay in place), it will look like geometry is tearing or stretching like a rubber. It worth too see one time than read explanation in words.

[Sun2k]

Ok thank you I see it more clearly but I will follow your advice ie make tests to understand

However, is it a good idea if I take screenshots of the influence of each bone of the original Ped to reproduce the same Influence on the replacement Ped?

Here is a screenshot of the Ped "ig_barry" which has an influence on the bisepts when there should not be any

[Oleg]

You can run two copies of ZModeler from different folders. Thus you can have one ZModeler with original model opened and another with your own mod. It will be easier to compare bone influence this way I guess.

[Sun2k]

Yes, very good idea, thank you.

I forgot, here is a screenshot of the Ped "ig_barry" which has an influence on the bisepts when there should not be any

How to explain this ?

[Oleg]

Practice is a good teacher. once you start modding and see impact of different influences yourself, you will understand it better. This is not a rule how to apply skel3 affection, it's all up to the artist on how he sees optimal rigging and what he/she tries to achieve.

May be blue/cyan level of affection is way too small to make significant visual impact. Here's an example - I've added more "spine3" affection on the arm (green and orange color). Take a look how vertices behave when hands are rotated to T-pose:

So, it's not some strict rule to follow, it's a sort of trial and error way. I guess the artist in your video made the first export without refining rigging and was unsatisfied with the result.

[Sun2k]

Waw thanks a lot, it's true that I could try the ped positions directly on Zmodeler

[Oleg]

even more, you can load and play original gta animation from .ycd file and see it on a ped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqWogOkvI5Q

[Sun2k]

Thanks, I'll check it out... really sorry to ask you all these questions

1/ In the tuto of this video (see below) why does he use the tool "Display Copies local axes from one node to another" and in the other video (see above the 1st post) he doesn't use this tool?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fpiMI_fhAo

2/ To replace a pedal, is it better to leave the .obj mesh as the original pedal in several parts (head, bottom, top, hand..) as in the 2nd video or to attach these parts to form a single mesh (and necessarily attach the different parts of the original pedal) as in the 1st video?

3/ Finally, according to you, which video is the best ?

thanks

[Oleg]

3. I can't say what video fits the best, in general they follow the common workflow.

1. "Copy axes" tool copies local axes from one object to another. If one does this, then he probably needs an exactly the same local axes on an object. that's what "Copy axes" tool does. I haven't not watched the video, so I don't know what the situation was about and whether this was essential or not.

2. Ped model setup is configured in metadata file. It tells the game what ped components are available and how to combine them. For example, a cop model might contain black and white cop models for head and hands, but can reuse shared upper and lower suit torso models. An accessories models can be mutually exclusive or could be combined one with another and so on. So, this is generally a question on how the model is (will be) configured in a .ymt file. Keep in mind that you can't attach parts to a single object if the result object will hit the 64K vertices limit. For this purpose some modders split their geometry model to components (each below 64K vertices) even if the metadata file does not tell the game to make variative combinations out of components (always uses the same set of components to make a single ped model).

Also, streaming player model and ped models are a bit different and you should research original model setup to get used how to make your own model.

I personally do not make any mods so I don't know the best practices. I used to replace original components and check for changes in game while testing - that's my modding experience.

[Sun2k]

Thanks a lot

For the "Copy axes" tool, what do you mean by: copies local axes from one object to another? it copies the axes of the skeleton?

What do you mean by: "streaming player model"?