ZModeler3 Scale PED

GTA:V Modding with ZModeler3 discussion.
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Trivvn
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ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by Trivvn »

I was wondering if anyone knows of a way to easily scale a ped model similar to what is shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANR70u1LhdI

The video shows scaling the entire skeleton as a single object, but this is no longer possible in the current version of zmodeler (and previous versions where it may be possible are no longer accessible due to a change in how license verification works). I have tried childing the skeleton to another object and scaling that, but this only shows *why* the video no longer works, apparently children objects do not scale with their parent (unless this is a setting that can be toggled somewhere that I have yet to find?)

If anyone has any ideas, I'd very much appreciate it. I realize it would be possible to "scale" the entire model by repositioning every bone but the precision of that method would be horrendous and would take many hours of work that I do not have available.
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Oleg
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by Oleg »

everything shown in a video is possible in current version of ZModeler. Mind to have the same settings as in a video.

In particular:
1. setup mode = on (toggled on skeleton)
2. pivot helper is placed at the base point of scale (near the feet on the video)
3. "pivot" button toggled ON in the bottom of ZModeler window.
4. selected all objects in scene ("SELECTED" button in the bottom is ON, "AUTO" button is OFF). Deselect the main dummy node, so the .skel and everything inside is selected (red squares).
Trivvn
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by Trivvn »

Sharing notes while working for anyone else running into issues:

In order to not select something, it needs to be disabled before selecting anything or it could be included whether it shows up as "red" in the hierarchy or not. Selecting ("turning red" in the present version, blue square in video version) is not possible through the hierarchy anymore (unless there is some unshown keypress while hovering that allows this? video seems to allow "clicking" on the square to toggle it to selected but that doesn't work for any combination of "Selected" and "Auto" button settings), so it must be done in the scene, but "Auto" must be "pressed" (on? off?) so that the selection square is usable, but then "Auto" should be toggled to "unpressed" (off? on?) because ------- (if someone could fill me in on this I'd appreciate it, the "auto" button doesn't seem to have a function except allowing things to be selected/deselected in the current version. Is it a meta-data setting that isn't visible but has an effect on the exported file? Or is it unnecessary with this version altogether? The above person seems to believe it to be necessary). Easiest way to avoid issues is to deselect everything, disable everything except what you want to select, select it with the square marquee ("Auto" pressed), re-enable everything (and un-press "Auto"?) then modify it and watch to make sure nothing else is being modified along with it.

The instructions above say "Deselect the main dummy node, so the .skel and everything inside is selected (red squares)." however in the video, the main dummy node IS selected (blue square in 3.1.3) when scaling, and then only the 3 grandchildren of the .skel are selected during movement. The movement feature shown in the video, as stated below, however, does not work as shown. This means that it must be scaled after moving the pivot rather than scaled then moved.

Both skeleton and mesh cannot be scaled at the same time (the skeleton will scale with the scale tool *and* scale proportionally-ish to the scaling mesh if done at the same time, causing the two of them to become unaligned and the skeleton to be impossible to fix due to the asymmetrical moving/scaling). In the current version "moving" the skeleton to re-align it cannot be accomplished as each bone moves proportionally to each other moving bone (the video shows the whole of the skeleton aside from the root moving with unchanging distance between each bone, but attempting this in the current version causes some bones to move farther than others, messing up the alignment). Thus, the only solution is to move the pivot point *before* scaling the skeleton and not moving the pivot point after

To scale the mesh, the mesh objects need to be selected but NOT the parents or root node of the mesh. This can be accomplished by individually selecting all of the components as shown in the video or by the above method of disabling everything and selecting everything else. After this, the video shows a method of resetting the origin but this is highly unreliable in the current version of the software (sometimes it resets all selected meshes' origins, sometimes only the one actually clicked on). Better method: *IMMEDIATELY* after scaling the mesh, right click on it and select "Axes->Reset to world". This will reset the origin of all selected meshes simultaneously.

Also, "Move" works on all children (enabled/selected or not) but scale does not... but scale works on *parents* regardless of enabled/selected? This is wonderfully confusing. And moving a skeleton directly as a whole causes all sorts of "relative" motion and must instead be done with a parent (dummy works) to get the appropriate results... but only in appearance because you don't want the root node of the skeleton to ever be moved from the origin making the whole idea of "moving" the skeleton useless in the current version and should instead be avoided by following the above instructions.

Final note, in the video linked above, the pivot is moved after the skeleton but before the mesh, it is much more effective to move the pivot before any adjustments are done, then not to move it again. Scaling the skeleton and mesh this way will ensure they match up properly and there's no need to move one to match the other.



As a whole this is 3 days worth of notes during a dozen hours of trial and error on which parts to select as shown in the video and which parts not to and re-exporting and running to determine whether anything worked as expected. There are a lot of things stated repeatedly and probably contradictions as the software does not work consistently (I'm not sure if this is a "feature" of the software or if my installation is bugged, but after spending 20+ hours re-rolling the verification roulette to get the software to run at all after paying for it, I'd really rather not spend another week playing that game again just to figure out if it's "properly" broken or just locally broken.)


Unrelated fun fact: Scrolling while the mouse is over the "drag to resize" area between windows freezes the software, try to avoid it. Or don't if it's just a local issue and not a feature of the software itself. Your mileage may vary.




And finally:AN ACTUAL TUTORIAL ON HOW TO SCALE A PED

0-Open Zmodeler3 and import BOTH the skeleton and mesh.
1-Move your pivot point to 0, -1.000, 0.000 (or as close as possible, if you've got 0.000xxx for all 3 numbers or 0.999xxx for the middle number, you're good)
2-Disable EVERYTHING except the skeleton and all children of the skeleton.
3-With NOTHING selected, right-click the skeleton, Bones->Setup mode. (This may require testing, I'm still unsure if this step is necessary but it certainly works with this step, so I've included it)
4-Disable the root, the skeleton root, and the 1st child of the skeleton node. Leave the "grandchildren" active:
hierarchy looks like this:
.global (disabled)
|-.skel (disabled)
||-SKEL_ROOT (disabled)
|||-SKEL_Pelvis (ENABLED)
|||-SKEL_Spine_Root (ENABLED)
|||-IK_Root (ENABLED)
|-(lots more nodes for the lowr/accs/hand/feet/hair/teef/head/uppr, ALL DISABLED)

5-Only when your hierarchy looks like above, select everything in the scene (AUTO must be "pressed" with a yellow background for the selection tool to work). Now you can use the scale tool.
6-DESELECT EVERYTHING then disable all skeleton components in the hierarchy
7-leave the 4-letter parent nodes for the meshes DISABLED but open each node so the .mesh are visible and make sure they are ENABLED. ONLY the .mesh components should be enabled
8-Select everything and scale to the same number as the skeleton was scaled to
9-WITHOUT DESELECTING ANYTHING - right click on the mesh and select "Axes->Reset to world"
10-Deselect everything, re-enable all components in the hierarchy.

You are now ready to export! Notice that there are no mentions to "auto" or "Selected" or "Pivot" here. That's because they are not actually needed to be interacted with in any way! Just leave them alone and it works. Every time. Why? Because "Auto" only changes whether or not you can use the marquee (or maybe it does something else, but for this set of instructions, whatever else it does is irrelevant) and "Selected" will change to the proper on/off setting when you select things! Pivot is on by default and should always be on for these steps, so leave it on because you want it on. Pretty simple.
Trivvn
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by Trivvn »

Also, if you mess up a step... It's easier to just close out and start over than to risk the "undo" button not actually undoing things properly and holding a hidden change that screws up the end result. For example, scale to the wrong size and undo, and the mesh/skeleton doesn't always revert to the same position that it was in before the scaling action.
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Oleg
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by Oleg »

I had to watch again the video just to remind what I was doing there. So, here are some notes to clear things up so you can understand it better what is going on (or what is not going the way you expect it to be).

Disabling square mark in hierarchy view hides an object (so it will not be affected by tool you apply). Object will hide its children too, so they are unaffected. This is not a "Disabling" which is also available in ZModeler in "Display -> Disable" branch of commands.

Expanding hierarchy of children of hidden object will cause them to be shown (and can be reached by tools you apply). Identically, collapsing a branch and hiding it will prevent tools from reaching elements you've left ticked as "visible" and/or "selected" in this branch. So you can keep selection of some objects (skeleton bones) left on, just hide and collapse a parent branch to hide this selection from tools.

Selection of everything and deselection of everything in the video is done via hotkeys Shift+A (Select->All) and Shift+D (Select->None). It's not mentioned anywhere in the video.

Selection of element in hierarchy with a click on visibility icon is performed with ALT key held down. It's not explained in the video, but it works the same way in video as in current version (red square is used for selection).

The "AUTO" button appears to be the most confusing: this button (when enabled) runs Select\Quadr tool action (rectangular selection/deselection) when you left-click in empty area of view (NOT over any highlighted item). This allows to select and deselect elements quickly. The selection will not be performed when something is highlighted by mouse cursor. In such a case, current tool will act instead. For example, to move a set of selected objects with "AUTO" button being pressed, you need to highlight an object before trying to move (selected objects). If you don't highlight anything, ZModeler will start drawing selection rectangle instead of moving objects that you have selected already. That is why I sometimes toggle this button OFF in a video.

When you have objects selected - "SELECTED" button turns red meaning "Tool will now apply to selection". You can move objects by click&dragging in any point of viewport and ZModeler will still move selected objects (even if they are out of view, not highlighted). That's what happens when "AUTO" button is off. Sometimes this behavior is preferred.

You can scale skeleton and geometries at once (not sure why you need this). Mind to toggle on "Setup Mode" on a skeleton. This is the mode when skeleton changes do not affect geometry of bind object(s). So, any modification to the skeleton should be done with this mode toggled on. It might be very preferable to toggle off "Inverse Kinematics" option on skeleton too. This mode can change *parent* of an object you are moving/rotating, and this could be not the thing you are trying to do. For example, moving a bone in "Inverse Kinematics" mode will rotate parent bones instead of moving the bone you are actually dragging with "Move" tool. It might be confusing in this particular tutorial if the option is toggled.
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Oleg
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by Oleg »

Unrelated fun fact: Scrolling while the mouse is over the "drag to resize" area between windows freezes the software, try to avoid it. Or don't if it's just a local issue and not a feature of the software itself. Your mileage may vary.
may you please post a screenshot and specify where mouse cursor should be, so I could try to reproduce the bug and fix it?

Edit:

When you move skeleton and have some issues with bones moving unexpected way, this could be related to "Move children" option of "Move" tool (with/without combination of "Inverse Kinematics" mode on a skeleton). The "Move" tool in a version on a video acts exactly the same as in current version. It's just a question of options and modes.

P.S.
"Auto", "SELECTED" and "Pivot" are for tools behavior, not related to import/export in any way.
"Pivot" tells tools whether they should act relative to object's local axes point or against a helper X-cross point. Mostly used by Rotate, Scale and Mirror tools to specify a rotating/scaling/mirror pivoting point.
Trivvn
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by Trivvn »

Part 1 response to the long descriptive message:
Thank you for the clarifications on those points, that does clarify a lot of things. I see the issue of the actual "disable" function vs the toggle box in the hierarchy view could be confusing.
As for the visible/active elements in hierarchy with children shown/not shown, that is a very useful feature overall (one I personally wish software like Blender would adapt). Took some trial and error to realize how it worked but it does simplify tasks after it is understood.


Part 2 response to the scroll to crash bug:

Image for reproducing "scroll to crash" issue (I could not find a way to capture the mouse pointer in the image... I hope my drawing is understandable)
Image

When the mouse is over that blue line between windows, it turns into the "up/down arrow" to indicate scaling with click+drag. When it shows this, scrolling the mouse causes a crash.
I have just now tested this twice to confirm that it happens on my end in a freshly opened zmodeler window.


Thank you for your replies and explanations
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Oleg
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by Oleg »

hmm.. I was unable to reproduce it on any of my ZModeler versions. May be it is related to your OS and system components of particular installation.
rockbergema
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by rockbergema »

1. I imported the YFT file
2. Change to .global
3. add a box in the area under the feet
4. change the .skel to edit mode
5. I disabled .global, .skel, and skel root,
6. I press alt in the skel child positions, namely skel_pelvis, skel_spin_root, and ik_root until the three skel children are red in the next box
6. I activate the auto button at the bottom and I drag it to take the whole of the three children of the skel
7. I deactivate the auto button and I click Scala, then I fill 300 and I press all, and I'm ok
8. Then there was an enlargement of 300 in the 3 skel children
8 after that I deactivated everything and I imported the ydd file
9. After that I LO to bring up the ydd file
10. I activate the box (ground) until it is red, after that I lower it below the center of the axis until it is under the feet, after that I deactivate the box ground again.
11. I activate all the .mesh in the ydd file.
after that I reactivate the auto button until it turns yellow and I scala the entire .mest, after that I change the size to 300 as well as the three skel children and I press ok
12. after that I press the right mouse and I select axes then I select reset to word, after that I press on the head material on the screen and I'm ok,
13 after that I changed the .global to the same name as the ydd file and I tried to export it to the ytd file and the ydd file and I entered it into open IV and I tried running it on gta 5
14 and it turns out that the results are messy,

information: I have followed such a video tutorial, as if there is something wrong with this software, if this software is normal, try to prove it to me step by step. If it turns out that those who have the software cannot provide information and methods in writing, it means that there is indeed something wrong with the software,

please reply to this message and provide a solution
agung1986
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by agung1986 »

why i cant do SETUP MODE with right click on skel ?
agung1986
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by agung1986 »

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Oleg
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Re: ZModeler3 Scale PED

Post by Oleg »

agung1986 wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:22 am why i cant do SETUP MODE with right click on skel ?
You can. it's in "Bones" -> "Setup mode".
On your image the model is imported with "Slice to parts" option toggled. So it has no skeleton created, just a plain hierarchy of (empty/dummy) objects. Toggle the option off and import again to get a skeleton with bones.
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